Find the Right College at the Right Price with Honoria DaSilva-Kilgore

Jennifer Owens  
Honoria DaSilva Kilgore, thank you so much for sharing your Sandwich expertise with us today. I suspect that we should have spoken about a year ago, when my spouse and I were starting our daughter's college search, because you founded Personal College Counseling, which is an independent educational consulting and college-advising firm. Having just gone through all the steps of this, I'd love to know: how do you fit into the searching and finding process?

Honoria DaSilva-Kilgore 
Well, I like to buck conventional wisdom and start with the kids as early in the high school process as possible. Because what I'm finding, and I haven't seen an exception to it yet, is that these kids at the high school level aren't getting any kind of college advice, college counseling until maybe second semester, junior year. 

Jennifer
It's all about the SAT. It's about the test. 

Honoria
That's just one small element. What I really want to do with the kids as much as possible — and I apologize in advance for calling them kids — but for me, it's about three major elements to really creating kids that are going to be successful in college and beyond. 

It's first and foremost about the academics. 

Secondly, you got to involve them in a social environment in a social life that they're going to want to be part of, that they'll flourish in, and help them grow to be the people they're supposed to be. 

And thirdly, and just as importantly, for parents all across the economic spectrum, is the finances. And that is a moveable piece for everyone. Not everyone's budget is the same. If you're a higher-earning family, you're not getting financial aid, that's just the way it is. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be getting merit aid, if you can. Who wants to pay more for the same thing, if you don't have to? 

But also, for the families that really need to know how to take advantage of the financial aid, in addition to the merit aid, this kind of service can be life-changing, all around. The important part to start with is setting that foundation to be as good as possible, as early as possible. 

What I find is that these kids, all across the spectrum, are just being underserved. Because if you're not a troublemaker, and you're doing well, you maybe see your counselor for five minutes a semester, maybe. Maybe twice a year, you get a you get a pat on the back, good job; here's your pre-printed schedule for next semester. See ya! Next!

Jennifer
I don't know how other schools were, but in my high school, that's what we had. Just 20 percent of my high school class went to college in the first place. So it may just have also been that we just didn't have the mindset for it. But my point is that this has kind of been the thinking forever.

Honoria
It is! It hasn't changed. And while I get it — high school counselors have so much on their plate, so much to do, and there are kids and families that have much more pressing concerns — but that doesn't mean that the college-bound kids don't deserve as much attention to maximize their potential as well. 

When I can start with a student early, like if I get a freshman, who is getting straight As, and they're not in anything higher than the college prep classes, I'll ask them: How come you're not in an honors class on this particular topic or an AP [Advanced Placement college-level class]? And the answer I get is, Oh, no one told me to. I'm like, What? That's not acceptable. That's them not giving you credit enough for being as smart as you are. But further on down the road, those credits, your strength of schedule, in addition to your GPA, translates to money, to college dollars. And not giving these kids the opportunity to shine in the highest level they can be in is really a disadvantage, and not something I can fix as a junior. It's too late.

And then of course, keeping them on track, giving them advice as they go through everything. And then using those SAT scores as a tool to our advantage, rather than what I see is, there's way too much pressure on these kids involving the SATs. 

Jennifer
It's all just that somehow the test score is your passkey to everything, and unlocks everything.

Honoria
Don't don't get me wrong, it's still important. But the trend here is changing dramatically. What I don't like about what the schools seem to do is they give them the PSATs early, without any prep, and then they don't really encourage them to take the SAT till, again, late junior year. Well, okay, that's just putting all your eggs in one basket. Why? Why are you doing that and stressing these kids out, when it's proven that every time you take the SAT, you do better? 

So it's prep, it's practice. It's not just knowledge-based, it's a test-taking skill, and you can improve it. And again, if I had my way, consistently, I want them to take it early, I want, I want to have three opportunities to really get them the best score they can, and then use it appropriately. When they get all freaked out — saying, well, I'm not a good test taker, I don't want to take this, all the schools are test-optional — I'm like, okay, but having that knowledge helps you. 

If I'm if I'm gonna hang a nail on the wall, do you want to hand me a shoe or a hammer? I want a hammer! 

Jennifer
Right! Oh, man, trying to take the test multiple times, that hasn't changed. But I'm wondering what the difference for those of us who are Gen X, and we went through looking for colleges, put together packs of paper to apply to college. What are some things for those of you who are following me into this path need to know about what college applications look like now, what the process looks like now?

Honoria
That's two different things. One, the college application itself almost always is going to be the common app. Everybody's kind of linked into that: you do one application, one essay, and almost everybody accepts that. Now, what you also need to be aware of is, one, if the school you're targeting doesn't accept the common app, or more likely, they accept it, but they also want additional essays.

Jennifer
That was the surprise for us. May I say, that tracking all those little like, "Please explain in 300 words on how you see yourself being part of our community?" "Can you do two things on how you..." was hard. And the schools are so savvy, they're all sort of different. They were individual enough that my daughter had to start from scratch each time. Maybe pick up a line here or there. But they all wanted their own thing.

Honoria
What I like to do is have all of our research, all of our prep, all of our looking done by the summer prior to senior year. Because that summer, I want to use all that time to help the kids with the essays: get ideas, play around with stuff, draft, first draft, second draft. Chuck it if it's just not going well, start over. Figure out which schools you are applying to so you know how many of these essays you're doing, and you're not doing it in a rush, and you're not doing it with other school constraints in mind. Senior year gets so crazy busy. 

But the other thing, I want parents and students to really be realistic, on so many levels, but when it comes to the essays, I'll tell you right now: if you're applying to a really large school, like Syracuse, like UMass Amherst, like these major institutions, no one's gonna read your essay. It does not matter.

Jennifer
What?! *Gasp!*

Honoria
It's just reality. They don't have time. UMass Amherst actually came right out and said that at one of the information sessions. It's like, "Thank you very much, do your best job. But honestly, we're not going to get to it. We're going to look at your GPA, your SAT and your academics." 

Jennifer
This is some hashtag truth being said here. Oh my goodness.

Honoria
But if you're applying to anything other than the big monster schools, then yes, of course you want a kickass essay? Oops, can I say that on the air?

Jennifer
I think you can. We're talking about money and college financial aid and applications. Yeah, I think it's time to start swearing. 

Honoria
It's so important. And it's important that that essay to be meaningful, so that it stands out. I remember one of my seniors from this last year, we really worker together on something. The first few things he submitted, yeah, they're all okay. And they're going to be using some of this stuff at school, you know, the professors will review it with the whole class, all that stuff. And I said, "This is fine. But this doesn't stand out. And it doesn't tell me anything personal or particular to you. It's a good academic essay, but it's not personal." So we went back to the well. We really played around with some stuff. And he ended up crafting something that was very meaningful and personal to him about his upbringing. And when we finished I said, that's a good essay. That's the one you're going to use. 

And then the first school he got his acceptance letter from, with the whole financial aid package, he got $125,000 for four years. And he's like, "How does that happen?" I'm like, "That's exactly what we wanted to happen. And don't forget, you had a kickass essay on top of all your academics, right?"

Jennifer
They got to know you. They want to take a bet on you by, you know, accepting you and saying, "This is the kid we want."

Honoria
It's important, but be real. Again, some people are going to read that and others are not.

Jennifer
It may seem a little silly to ask this, because we talk about the kids — the young adults — and they're writing the essays, but what role should they play in all this? Because yes, they should do it all. Let's say that. But in reality, with all the tracking of the deadlines. One of the worst employees you can have is your teenage child. So I guess this is just therapy for me having to go through this. But what role should we expect them to play in all of this?

Honoria
Well, first off, you should have a teenager that is motivated and wants to go to college. If they don't have any kind of self-motivation, no matter how much we drum that beat, stuff isn't going to happen. So that's the first thing. And maybe we can talk about gap years, but yeah, first, let's have a kid that wants to go. 

So assuming that: going forward, my approach is very team-focused and, and collaborative. I keep the parents on track as well as the students so that they're doing things at appropriate times. And that said, the student still is going to need to follow through with the task.

But what I find is that if you leave it all on the student, they get too focused on all these different deadlines. Next thing you know, they're completely overwhelmed and nothing's getting done. So you just want to keep things in proportion. What I do is I give them tasks from the first day till the last day, and in morsels that can be digested and analyzed and used. 

Because you can't just spit this all out and go, "Okay, now look at these 30 schools, tell me which ones you want to go to, and what essays you're going to do. And oh, by the way, this one's January 1, that one's November 15, blah, blah, blah." No, that's too much. That's not going to be helpful. There's no need to even think about deadlines till we start getting into senior year.

Jennifer
I think the interesting thing about deadlines — especially if you do the early-action stuff (for those of us  applying right now, this is insider baseball) — but you have all these deadlines start to fade, because they all have those early action, early decision, "section one," "segment two" deadlines. Some schools even have a rolling deadline. I found all the tracking deadlines very stressful. 

Honoria
What I do is when we get to that point, I create a chart or a schedule of who's on what, when are their deadlines and when we're going to apply to them by when. So that you don't necessarily have to apply to all ten schools on the same day. 

You also can ladder them according to different approaches. And then when it comes to early action versus early decision versus regular decision, or rolling admissions — it's a whole thing. And you can use that to your advantage, but also be aware financially of what that means for you. Honestly, unless you can pay full price, full sticker price at wherever you're applying, there is no reason to do early decision.

Jennifer
Wow. Tell me more.

Honoria
The key distinction is: early action is not binding on the student; early decision is. That is a contract. If you get in on early decision, you immediately have to withdraw your application from other schools. You are saying, Yes, I want to go there for sure. And this is before you know what the financial package is. You're just getting a yes from them. and you're saying, "Yes, I do." And then crossing your fingers that everything else works out. 

Sometimes, like when my son was applying and being recruited by the coach at his school, we had a little bit of insider information, because that coach actually took the initiative, walked his stuff into admissions for a pre-screen, came back and said, "Yes, not only will you get in, but if you apply early decision, you will qualify for this pool of money that's there. But if it's later, it might not be there." 

But that was a very specific situation. If you don't know that, and you need a certain amount of aid for for those numbers to work for you, don't do early decision.

Jennifer
Right. Because with early action, if the financial aid package isn't enough and you just can't swing it, you have a little bit more leverage to say, No, thank you.

Honoria
And you still can wait for your other ofers to come back. You have until National Acceptance Day, May 1, before committing. It's like a holiday around here. 

Sometimes the parents even more so than the kids, they get starry-eyed with, "Oh, I know this school versus that one" and then they get silly about the numbers. I don't think you should be borrowing more than you should be to get through school. And that said, I think it's totally fine for the kids to every year take the guaranteed student loan amount, which starts at $5,500 a year and goes up a little bit every year. I think that's a reasonable amount of money to put into your own education.

Jennifer
To Invest in yourself. 

Honoria
Absolutely. I think the kids should have some skin in the game, even if the parents could afford to do the whole thing. I think it's important. That's just me. But beyond that, okay. Then you have the difference between that and the total cost, less what you got for financial aid and merit aid. And if the difference after all, that math is not something that the parents have in the bank, or have saved up or maybe want to use an equity line for — that's a whole other concept.

But if they have to now go into parents, plus borrowing and loans? This school is too expensive for you. 

Jennifer
How about talking to your children about the cost of college. I found the whole math regarding what we could afford was hard to have in my own head. Our daughter's acceptance, thankfully, came with merit aid. And then a little bit more merit aid came literally the next day. And so, we kind of went in a bit fingers-crossed on early action of like, Well, hopefully, it'll be good, with work study and all this sort of jazz. But I guess we would have topped out at a limit and said "This is how much we can afford."

But knowing which colleges to apply for based on that limit, it's it seems very unknowable.

Honoria
Well, yes, that's where someone like me comes in. Because that's that's the fun part. 

Jennifer
[laughs] Is it, though?

Honoria
Starting off, there's a couple of things. I think, economically, that you should do. One, be aware of what your finances are, how much have you put aside, saved, or not! Some people honestly —

Jennifer
They're barely surviving!

Honoria
Yes, exactly. So I get it. That does not mean college is out of reach by any means. But it means the financial component is even more important. So know what you have put aside: whether it's cash, 529s, or whatever source you're going to use. 

And then secondly, to get a real reality check, I strongly recommend to go do a practice FAFSA [Free Application for Federal Student Aid] as soon as possible, because that's going to tell you — and that's the same form every single school is going to use to set your financial need. That's going to tell you whether it's realistic or not what they expect you to contribute as your expected family contribution. That is a final number that's going to be generated. And it's shocking for most people to think that, "What?! They think I'm going to come up with this every year?!"

Jennifer
Yes, dear listeners, yes. It's a shock as to what they think you can afford, and yet you're going to try to figure it out. 

Honoria
That is a useful, you know, that is that is a super useful number to have. Because it'll tell you if the school costs less than that number, I'm going to get zero in financial aid, and that's financial aid. There's a huge difference between financial aid and merit aid. 

What we do is we hunt for merit aid, because I can't affect your expected family contribution number; I have no input onto that. That is what it is. And we work around it and use it to whatever. So it's just a real reality check for most families. 

And then I think you need to talk to your student and say, "Look, you —" My opinion is the student should be only concerned, at this point in time in high school, with being the best student they can be. Whatever that means to them. Everybody's going to be having different numbers and being in different things, whatever it is. Pursue whatever it is you're passionate about, and enjoy. Don't get into five activities just because you think it's gonna look good on a college transcript. It's not. What's gonna look better is that you did something that was meaningful to you; you did it well, you stood out somewhere for something. That's more important. The kids should focus on that. But that said, be honest with them. Have open conversations and say, "This is how much we've put aside. This is how much we think we can afford. And then you know, we'll see what the schools settle in and we'll do our best." 

But that said, when in the looking process, it's important to understand so many things about why kids get money. One, academics, of course. Two, the school has to have money to give them, set aside for merit aid. And that is going to vary tremendously by some schools, some schools don't give any merit aid; they only give financial aid. Which, those schools are a great opportunity for people that make less money that are academically talented. And we need to take advantage of that. But you need to know where those pockets of funds are, and how much you might be available for at any particular institution. And you need to understand where you fall in that scheme, because schools are not all need-blind in their admissions decisions. And that could be shocking for people. You know, they factor in: "if I accept this particular student, how much can they afford to pay us? Or how much can we afford to give them to have them come here?" And if that formula doesn't work for them, you could be very academically talented, but you might not fit their formula.

That's why when we get to the schools we're going to apply to, I do what's called, what I call a "portfolio approach." Just because you're solidly in the zone — and that's another one of my pet peeves, I do not do safety schools; I hate the idea. But you have to be solidly in the zone of the schools you're targeting. But that said, that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get in, you know. Because everybody else applying should also be solidly in the zone.

Jennifer
Oh, my goodness, yes.  I would say though, it can be done. Right? You can, you will survive this process? We all do, right? 

Honoria
Of course. Yes! 

Some do better than others at the, with the final outcomes. That's the whole thing. It's how much time do you have to dedicate to really doing all this research? For me, that's what I'm doing. And I love it. But to really get into the weeds, it's a lot of time and prep that most people just don't have. And, and honestly, one of your things we talked about a little bit before, you know, get out of your bubble, get out of your comfort zone, because there's so many more opportunities, if you can, at the very least geographically diversify your portfolio.

Jennifer
I think we need to have you back on to talk about how to diversify your school options. I'm surprised at how regional our search was — and how regional it was when I was a kid. So yes,  we're gonna make a date.

Honoria
And you know what? You're not unusual in that respect. Most people are only familiar with the stuff that's immediately around them, whether they've heard of it, a friend went there or something like that. Or, you know, they just haven't really traveled much.

Jennifer
There's a whole world out there!

Honoria
There is! I'm all about expanding their opportunities, not restricting them. And if you won't travel a little bit further out of where you are, you're missing the boat on so many things.

Jennifer
I want to thank you for letting us jump on your boat today. 

Honoria
Anytime, anytime. 

Jennifer

Thank you for joining us on club sandwich. Our guest today was a Honoria DaSilva-Kilgore, and you are going to be back, and we're going to get more into the weeds because these are the weeds I'm living in right now.